We live in a weird world where Western nations are expected to abide by international law and norms while authoritarian regimes see such rules and norms as tools to facilitate their imperial ambitions.
Fun trivia fact: You know the .io top-level domain, that is or at least was trendy among tech startups? This territory is who it technically belongs to.
The domain is currently administered by a private equity firm. The islanders haven't seen any of the proceeds, and have complained about this; the issue occasionally surfaces in tech spaces that are on the woker side of the spectrum.
It's unclear how this agreement, if it happens, will affect things; technically the domain is supposed to stop existing if the territory loses its special status (and doesn't become a new sovereign country), but I don't think that'll happen since it'd break the internet.
> Among those aboard was a man, now in his 70s and one of the few remaining native-born Chagossians. He was 14 when British officials forced his family onto a boat leaving the islands. When the archipelago finally came into view again decades later, those on board said he cried.
I guess I am feeling cold-hearted in tune with the weather this late March afternoon, but my god, I hope we are not attempting to craft semi-permanent geopolitical realities based on the sentimentalities of retirees.
Yep, we fucked that up 60 years ago! Or in other cases, 200 or 400 years ago! *Now*, today, what do we do?
Considering that China has done nothing to help its "allies" Venezuela, Iran, and Cuba over the past few months, we could tell Mauritius to pound sand without issue. What is even the benefit at this point for developing countries to become Chinese dependencies? Massive cash bribes?
"The U.K.’s goals seem to be: (1) Improving Britain’s reputation at the U.N. and around the world (2) Righting injustices done to the Chagossian people (3)Ensuring U.K. and U.S. national security is not compromised
While this proposed deal does address (1) well, there are serious questions of its ability to accomplish points (2) and (3)"
(1) is nonsense. the Lefty-Anti-Western types who care about such things overall will simply gallop on to the next point to hate UK/west over. Given the tiny marginal nature of this (and indeed as Islands were unihabited before colonial implantation)
Generally speaking Maldives by geography etc. is much more sensible a resolution (after the other choice, not doing anything at all to buy 15 minutes of virtue signaling that will be forgotten with great rapidity for no particularly great results)
A lot of the controversy in the UK comes from the fact that the deal involves a payment to Mauritius of several billion pounds which seems odd when returning territory. There is also controversy over the lawyers for Mauritius being connected and good friends of Starmer and his attorney general Lord Hermer.
I'm sorry this is a terrible article that completely misses the point. Of course this deal screws ovet the Chagos Islanders but it was never meant to help them. It was meant to place Diego Garcia's status on a firmer legal footing to avoid the possibility that neighbouring countries would render it unusable by not letting plans or ships stop in their territory on the way to Diego Garcia. And Mauritius is clearly right - we told them that they must give the islands to get their independence. That's coercion and clearly illegal under UN decolonialisation law. It was for this reason that Biden told the previous British government to do a deal with Mauritius. And the talk of them being allies with China is hysterical nonsense. Their key relationship is with India who has also been pushing for a deal to be done. Trump is lashing out because he fell out with Modi and Starmer over other issues. And no one in Britain cares about this because it's not really our base. We'd have properly gave it up ages ago, but the Americans wanted it. Please Matt, stop getting your UK news from British Racist Twitter. It's making you look ridiculous
It is a fundamental problem with anti-colonial logic, the idea that Westerners running a place is wrong but non-Westerners from a nearbyish but completely different cultural group is somehow ok.
It meant that on many occasions the anti-colonialsts supported oppression of minority group by unpleasant dictatorships of a completely different ethnic or religious group to the oppressed purely on the grounds of the dominant groups non-Western nature (Probably not a huge concern in this example).
It is is not unfair to call Rod Liddle right wing, but he is a member of the continuation SDP and was the speechwriter for Neil Kinnock the leader of the Labour Party in the 1980s.
I’m sort of convinced the British have never and will never do the right thing. Even when they try to do the right thing, it’s wrong. They should just pack it in, sign their sovereignty over to someone else, and know it couldn’t possibly be worse.
As usual throat clearing statements do not help support a well written argument. “Democrats don’t want to give China a major advantage in wartime any more than Republicans” but the whole point of the article is that the handover of the islands is a difficult balance between decolonization/reparations and strategic interest. In this context Democrats literally do want to give China an advantage more than Republicans because they place some value on the interests of the Chagossians!
We live in a weird world where Western nations are expected to abide by international law and norms while authoritarian regimes see such rules and norms as tools to facilitate their imperial ambitions.
And unfortunately, the US is not a Western nation when Republicans are in control
Reminds me of Britain handing over Hong Kong to China against Hong Kong people’s will — also an unmitigated disaster
The People's Republic is Bad, Actually. Grind it under a tank tread--kind of their thing.
But it's not obvious to me that the UK could have actually protected Hong Kong's semi-sovereignty before or after 1997.
I'm sorry no. Mainland Hong Kong had a lease that was due to aspire. We looked into letting the island stay outside PRC but it wouldn't be viable.
The Chagos Islands probably won't exist when the proposed lease is over because of rising sea levels
There was never any chance that Hong Kong was not going to be part of China. A little real politik please.
Fun trivia fact: You know the .io top-level domain, that is or at least was trendy among tech startups? This territory is who it technically belongs to.
The domain is currently administered by a private equity firm. The islanders haven't seen any of the proceeds, and have complained about this; the issue occasionally surfaces in tech spaces that are on the woker side of the spectrum.
It's unclear how this agreement, if it happens, will affect things; technically the domain is supposed to stop existing if the territory loses its special status (and doesn't become a new sovereign country), but I don't think that'll happen since it'd break the internet.
> Among those aboard was a man, now in his 70s and one of the few remaining native-born Chagossians. He was 14 when British officials forced his family onto a boat leaving the islands. When the archipelago finally came into view again decades later, those on board said he cried.
I guess I am feeling cold-hearted in tune with the weather this late March afternoon, but my god, I hope we are not attempting to craft semi-permanent geopolitical realities based on the sentimentalities of retirees.
Yep, we fucked that up 60 years ago! Or in other cases, 200 or 400 years ago! *Now*, today, what do we do?
Considering that China has done nothing to help its "allies" Venezuela, Iran, and Cuba over the past few months, we could tell Mauritius to pound sand without issue. What is even the benefit at this point for developing countries to become Chinese dependencies? Massive cash bribes?
Up to UK however
"The U.K.’s goals seem to be: (1) Improving Britain’s reputation at the U.N. and around the world (2) Righting injustices done to the Chagossian people (3)Ensuring U.K. and U.S. national security is not compromised
While this proposed deal does address (1) well, there are serious questions of its ability to accomplish points (2) and (3)"
(1) is nonsense. the Lefty-Anti-Western types who care about such things overall will simply gallop on to the next point to hate UK/west over. Given the tiny marginal nature of this (and indeed as Islands were unihabited before colonial implantation)
Generally speaking Maldives by geography etc. is much more sensible a resolution (after the other choice, not doing anything at all to buy 15 minutes of virtue signaling that will be forgotten with great rapidity for no particularly great results)
A lot of the controversy in the UK comes from the fact that the deal involves a payment to Mauritius of several billion pounds which seems odd when returning territory. There is also controversy over the lawyers for Mauritius being connected and good friends of Starmer and his attorney general Lord Hermer.
This is what happens when you elect an international human rights lawyer as your PM
I'm sorry this is a terrible article that completely misses the point. Of course this deal screws ovet the Chagos Islanders but it was never meant to help them. It was meant to place Diego Garcia's status on a firmer legal footing to avoid the possibility that neighbouring countries would render it unusable by not letting plans or ships stop in their territory on the way to Diego Garcia. And Mauritius is clearly right - we told them that they must give the islands to get their independence. That's coercion and clearly illegal under UN decolonialisation law. It was for this reason that Biden told the previous British government to do a deal with Mauritius. And the talk of them being allies with China is hysterical nonsense. Their key relationship is with India who has also been pushing for a deal to be done. Trump is lashing out because he fell out with Modi and Starmer over other issues. And no one in Britain cares about this because it's not really our base. We'd have properly gave it up ages ago, but the Americans wanted it. Please Matt, stop getting your UK news from British Racist Twitter. It's making you look ridiculous
I've read some silly comments here over the years. Congratulations, this is one of them.
I highly doubt you had ever heard of Diego Garcia until reading this nonsense, so I won't lose any sleep about you disagreeing with me to be honest
"a major advantage in wartime"
... a war that very conspicuously does not include China
Rod Liddle, tee hee…
It is a fundamental problem with anti-colonial logic, the idea that Westerners running a place is wrong but non-Westerners from a nearbyish but completely different cultural group is somehow ok.
It meant that on many occasions the anti-colonialsts supported oppression of minority group by unpleasant dictatorships of a completely different ethnic or religious group to the oppressed purely on the grounds of the dominant groups non-Western nature (Probably not a huge concern in this example).
It is is not unfair to call Rod Liddle right wing, but he is a member of the continuation SDP and was the speechwriter for Neil Kinnock the leader of the Labour Party in the 1980s.
I’m sort of convinced the British have never and will never do the right thing. Even when they try to do the right thing, it’s wrong. They should just pack it in, sign their sovereignty over to someone else, and know it couldn’t possibly be worse.
Pretty rich from the country that on its hands as Hitler rampaged round Europe
As usual throat clearing statements do not help support a well written argument. “Democrats don’t want to give China a major advantage in wartime any more than Republicans” but the whole point of the article is that the handover of the islands is a difficult balance between decolonization/reparations and strategic interest. In this context Democrats literally do want to give China an advantage more than Republicans because they place some value on the interests of the Chagossians!
I think Matt needs to send Halina to Mauritius to meet with the local activists and local government officials to get the inside scoop.
https://www.fourseasons.com/mauritius/