My favourite part about foodie culture is that they will go to another country to eat street food and be like the locals (which I do too! Street food is awesome!), but will never realize that street food in North America is basically fast food.
Not so sure. Actual street food (especially in developing countries) isn't standardized like US fast food. I'm not passing judgment as to which is better, mind you: there's a lot to be said for dependability, predictability, and the absence of food poisoning. But street food by its nature is quirky and varied. Wendy's is the same in Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine.
A better comparison is probably food trucks. Yes, some can be a bit pricey, but the US is a very rich country, so lots of things are expensive.
It’s very standardized overseas, people learn a recipe and don’t deviate from it for the same reason we have fast food: the key thing with street food is people knowing what they’re getting.
Germany and the Netherlands have their own versions of really gross, cheap and standardized industrially produced food. Also anywhere in the old East Block.
There are so many ways in which this is false. Fast food is mass produced from highly-processed ingredients. Street food may not be high-quality ingredients, but it's not highly-processed.
Great piece. Silly, perhaps, but a perfect illustration of the proud, intentional, and deliberate closing of the mind that is the hallmark of elite journalism today.
Note this is the same population that proudly writes features about cicada recipes, so I don’t buy “it looks gross” as the real reason for skipping the Big Mac.
I agree. She's a food critic so you have to eat it, gross or not, especially if you are going to diss it. Blithely saying I've never had a Big Mac but it still sucks, is elitist and off putting. That said, if you're judging McD's burgers - Quarter pounder is tops followed by single cheeseburger. And I was pleasantly surprised by the new chicken sandwich which I tried out of curiosity last week.
One thing where conservatives really have liberals number is snobbery: they get that a lot of what motivates the attitude of right-thinking liberals (not D voters but the people who write for prestige outlets and the people who run or donate to the Democratic party) is a desire to seem different from people of generally similar background who have bad taste and embarrassing opinions. This is *mostly snobbery*, it doesn’t actually make you a better person & it not the best motive in politics.
I love opera & I’m turned off by the idea of Disney World or jet skis or going on a cruise (although I have eaten a big mac and have been to a shooting range out of curiosity - it was fun). I don’t feel the need to rejigger my tastes to be less snooty, I am who I am, but they come from my background, it would be idiotic to confuse them with moral worth or good politics. Left wing politics has to involve poorer people voting for a party that protects their interests or it is all a game.
Cruises are extremely underrated. A massive ship with an endless number of activities, nightly entertainment, and unlimited food? Also, it's sailing around the Caribbean, so you can visit some of the finest beaches in the world and explore Caribbean culture. I know I sound like a Royal Carribean ad, but I stand by it
I hate going foreign places and being surrounded by Americans or having my activities chosen by somebody else. The one time my boyfriend and I went to the Caribbean cost of Mexico I insisted that we spend zero time in Cancun, & that we rent a car and drive around the Yucatan peninsula. It was probably as much fun as a cruise would have been but it took a huge amount of time to plan and it would have been impossible with kids.
I am willing write a New Yorker article about how I have strong opinions about cruises in spite of never having tried one. If I liked it it would undermine my sense of self. What if jet skis are more fun than kayaks?
Agreed. Had absolutely zero desire to go on one. Ever. Until a freebie arose courtesy of the 'rents some years ago. (Dad must've had a good year). Who am I to pass up a free vacation? Significant others were in invited and everything! I have to say it was far better than I'd dared hoped. We did the Caribbean as it happens. Royal Caribbean, as it happens. Ten days in March when the weather still sucks in Boston. I had fears of crowding and long lines. But no, it's basically a floating pleasure palace. Drank kick-ass rum on a Jamaican beach after horseback riding. Saw some whacked out pyramids in Mexico. Finally saw what all the fuss with Aruba is about (Newton with sand, from what I could tell). Caymans. Curacao. Definitely worth doing at least once, for the experience.
When my father was in the army, we took a boat from the Brooklyn Navy Yard to Bremerhaven, Germany. Our Buick came along and powered us down the autobahn to Hesse. This was a fun bit of practical cruising. I’m not the man for just sailing around.
Cruises generally have never sounded great to me -- I don't need "unlimited" food, I want a variety of _interesting_ food that I might not get regularly back home. Most of their "entertainment" options (like lounge singer shows aren't my thing) aren't my thing. And I don't want to go from port to port and only spend a day there, and then be bottled up on the boat... I want to actually have a few days to wander around.
So, fine, I very much have the snob tourism style -- but I don't really care what anyone else does! If you love cruises, by all means, go on cruises! (Though maybe read up on how the companies treat their workers, and see if you can find a way to ask them to do better.)
The last long trip I took, I went to a town in Baja del Sur that is a popular tourist destination for middle- to upper-middle-class _Mexicans_, and hung out for a week. My Spanish is just good enough that the fact that local service workers _don't_ always speak great English wasn't a big impediment, we could muddle through.
But: I really want to go on the JoCo cruise someday. I still don't understand how the author of this article ends up saying he _doesn't_ think he'd do it again. It sounds like the best parts of an sf con, stretched out and mixed with the best aspects of the cruise concept.
“Personally, I think a Quarter Pounder is way better and also all the McDonald’s burgers are pretty bad but the fries or great and there’s some excellent breakfast options“
Based af.
The Big Mac sucks. Open the box—boom—lettuce everywhere.
The main entrees are pretty trash for the price. It’s all about the dollar menu—or I guess technically two cheese burgers is a main menu item and for $2.12 it’s great. My friend always does a McDouble and McChicken. Also a good combo but I think it’s a little pricier. These are also WAY better to eat in the car while driving—less mess. And honestly not a bad option if you’re trying to lose weight but want to treat yourself—as long as you’re willing to skip fries. Number 2 is 600 calories and you get to chow down two burgers—Big Mac and QP are mid 500s so it’s the same kinda thing. I dropped 40+ pounds over a few months still treating myself to a number 2 diet no fries a couple times a week.
Dunno how I feel about the new numbering for chicken sandwiches—4a, 4b etc. I think the Wendy’s option is better—have the sandwich and then chose spicy home style or grilled. This isn’t going to work if they go past 3 options—going to have too much mishearing b and d.
Wish they’d bring those spicy chicken tenders back but I guess my stepbro said they were a pain to make.
Oh and we didn’t even touch on the nuggets! I dunno IMO Wendy’s and even BK Lounge have a superior nug! But maybe some people like that drier and crunchier taste and less of the breading and just prefer the mcnug. There just aren’t a lot of McDs numbered menu items that are worth it. I do like Wendy’s more overall but even there—the 4 for $4 is just a better buy. Like when I say “I’m in the mood for fast food” I’m not in the mood for like a main entree and a side or whatever like I’m in the mood to pull a lot of small stuff out the bag that fits in my hand while I drive. It’s more like “snack food”—like eating a bag of chips—and less like an actual meal. The quality is RARELY high enough that it feels like a legit meal (well there’s a key exception below that I’ll get to)
If you’re in the $8-$11 range for a full meal—well—personally I’d go the Culver’s but I realize that’s not an option for the Coastal Elites here. I’d probably go with Arby’s I guess—and look—if you haven’t been to an Arby’s in the past ~15 years—forget whatever you’re picturing. It’s like Dominoes pizza—they’ve changed their ways. Don’t picture “ew gross roast beef melt eh maybe I’d stop for curly fries and a jamocha shake” no. They’ve got a lot of better options. Just do yourself, the employees, and the folks behind you a favor and do a little research before you go. Maybe just commit yourself to a “category”—do I want chicken? Corned beef? Then decide the specific sandwich at game time. It’s gonna be too overwhelming if you go in cold—you’re gonna get frustrated and panic order a roast beef or something you remember from the last time you were there during the Bush years and have a bad time.
Another good underrated sleeper buy is DEFINITELY a combination KFC-Taco Bell. Doesn’t really fit my whole “driving food” model but it’s got something for everyone.
I *do* like splurging every now and then for the Impossible Whopper at BK Lounge too. Way better than I expected! Just as good as the real Whopper (but tbf it’s a low bar). I dunno. Not my go to but I like to support the idea. Plus my wife doesn’t eat cows so we can both go and get it—it’s nice.
Similar with White Castle—they dropped an impossible slider around the same time and it’s worth checking out if you’re into that kind of thing. But still—White Castle and Sonic are similar to McDs in that it’s overpriced fast food. But there at least you’re paying for *novelty*. And you’re committing to a MUCH longer wait most of the time than you get at the Big Four. I wouldn’t stop for WC or Sonic when I’m just out and about the way I usually would for drive thru. Going out for those is more of an event.
Look—just to head off any contrarians on here coming to dunk on me about Culver’s—I get it. The fries are garb accordion school cafeteria fries. I agree. If you’re in the mood for fries and a coke McDs is great. It’s just Culver’s is for when I’m ACTUALLY going to sit and eat. If I’m committing to pulling up, parking and taking a number, I’m committing to eating that gd butter burger with two hands. I’m not THERE for the fries I’m there for the burger and probably a shake (hell if I’ve got the time I might even make it a malt!)—im there for the savory the fries are just there for a little sweet to mix it up.
Largely agree on Culver's. My girlfriend (from Chicago, went to college in Wisconsin) hyped it up to me when we went out to visit her parents. (I had never tried it because, while I am from Southeast Michigan, I moved to the East Coast shortly after Culver's opened its first locations in my area and I never had a chance to try it.) What can I say, it lived up to my girlfriend's hype--it tasted like a burger you'd get for about 50% more at a sit-down place and the custard was perfect. (Also, the fries are not the correct side, you get the cheese curds.)
On Arby's is there any regional variation/variation by franchise? On the same trip, my girlfriend and I went to an Arby's on I-80 in Western PA and it was...largely as I remembered it from c.2005. There were a few new options but not many.
So true. Yeah, it's sit-down quality. Agree--cheese curds are the play. Shoot--I might even get some tomorrow now that we're talking about it.
Re: Arby's--hmmm--could be? I've found indigents are just overall better and there's more options--though admittedly they seem to cycle things in and out more often than McD et al. Pandemic has definitely limited options lately as well.
Tbh it's the lettuce that puts me off the Big Mac. (Well that and the sauce.) Must be an Arab thing, we generally don't put lettuce in our sandwiches. (If you've ever gotten lettuce in your shawarma or falafel...well it might've been authentically the restaurant's choice, but more likely they're catering to foreigners. Tomato, onion, cucumber, and pickles might show up, and arugula is authentic in some Egyptian sandwiches, but usually not lettuce.)
Ok, I don't really mean that, I've actually been enjoying Slow Boring immensely. But articles like this, where the subject isn't specifically about economics or politics, and at first it seems a little bit unserious, but then actually raises some really good points, are something I've really missed. I'd love to see a little more of "fun Matt" - the guy who writes about Big Macs, or fast food salads, or basketball. Not because I only care about pop culture, but because it's really interesting to think about these seemingly unimportant things in a analytical way that can bring up ideas which translate to other subjects.
For example, one of my all-time favorite articles by Matt was this brief analysis about the perverse incentives that caused the NBA owners to vote to keep the Kings in Sacramento back in 2013:
That's not just some dumb sports story! It's a really interesting take on why the team owners collectively voted against the best interests of one of the individual owners in order to make themselves richer. I learned something about economics that day.
I'm not saying turn this into a Big Mac blog. But, if every few weeks, we got one article about fast food, or a TV show, or a sports team, I wouldn't complain.
I've never tried a Big Mac. Plenty of Quarter Pounders, though. The Big Mac appears to be a burger with smaller patties and... a piece of bread in the middle. Why? Who eats a Quarter Pounder and thinks, "That was all right, but what it really needs is 33% less beef and 50% more bread"?
Yeah, one of the joys of the fast food burger style is that it’s thinner than a typical burger. But a Big Mac loses that feature by adding more bread? I mean, if Matt was telling us here that it’s the best thing on the menu I’d give it a shot, but at this point it just seems like a meh option.
Even more tellingly, the author apparently never had a Big Mac as a kid (they're really not *that* big). My guess is that the elitism is so ingrained through the generations at the New Yorker, no one there even recognizes how tone-deaf it all sounds.
This is a silly conclusion. Lots of kids don’t like all those toppings on their burgers. I’ve had hundreds of McDonalds burgers and never wanted a Big Mac because I don’t like pickles and raw onions. A Big Mac isn’t some novel product. It’s a freaking hamburger with normal ingredients that you either know you’ll enjoy or you know you won’t.
Ate loads of fast food, never had a Big Mac. Didn't like the onions at McDonalds so generally rejected their burgers and if I wanted a burger, would go elsewhere.
The fail here is not trying a big mac for your article; it is lazy reporting, that's all.
I have never tried a literal Big Mac, but I am, uh, probably overly familiar with the rest of the McDonald's menu, which is different from what the author implied, which is more to the effect of "McDonald's? Why, I would never!" than not having tried the specific sandwich.
I think your point about being curious is well-taken, Matt. I'm a fairly bookish liberal, but if someone wanted to, say take me to NASCAR, or out to shoot guns for fun, or out bow hunting, I'd probably say yes, because I have not done those things and I'm genuinely curious about the experience. I'm not going out of my way to do those things, but it's also not my job to write about them.
Many (most?) states have free learn to hunt classes (paid for by federal taxes on guns and ammo). Highly recommended if you want to try new things for free!
Would it be ok with Matt if I continue to live as a person who's never tried a Big Mac? I'm plenty curious (I swear!). And I'm the least food-snobbish person on the planet. (You haven't really lived until you've eaten a quality Chinese ramen product slathered in Lao Gan Ma at 4am after plenty of cheap baijiu). BUT in the low-end US burger joint sector I've always preferred Burger King (don't disagree, mind you, that McDonald's fries are superior, but BK's burgers are definitely better). When forced to eat a non-breakfast at McDonald's I opt (this is bad) for just a regular cheeseburger (or two, if you really want to know the bitter truth).
A few other observations re: US burgers: 1) In-N-Out is the most overrated thing to come out of California since I don't know what. I mean, they're fine, but, a cult? Seriously? 2) Shake Shack is another overrated place, based on my single visit to the one adjacent to the Japanese Baseball Hall of fame. 3) I finally made it to a Five Guys last year during my extended USA stranding, and I thought their fare was delicious.
In-N-Out's fries are offensively bad. I'll walk a mile to eat a napkin from McDonald's before eating In-N-Out's fries again.
Usually when I spit this kind of truth about In-N-Out's fries, the fans pop in and say, "Oh, see, you have to order them [well done/animal style]!" Nope. Don't waste your money, they're still awful. You can't just cut potatoes and immediately fry them and expect to get a good result, but that's what they *pride* themselves on doing, wearing their laziness and indifference like a badge of honor.
Shake Shack is far away the best burger of the three, but it's double the price of In-N-Out, which is easily the best value. Five Guys isn't really part of the conversation unless you're someone who really, really loves peanuts.
I was a vegetarian from adolescence until about age 35, and so I've had only a few years to develop meat preferences, and I still can't resolve the Great Burger Debate. (Part of it is probably that, being from California and a fan of Big Lebowski, I can't help but *want* In-N-Out to be the best.) I'd love to try a blind taste-test sometime if the burgers could be provided hot enough—some LA mall that has all three, maybe.
So many things have come out of California that it's inexcusable not to have finished that comparison. The most overrated thing to come out of California since…the Power Mac Cube? The movie Crash? The Mamas and the Papas?
Yeah, sorry about not finishing the comparison. Honestly, I'm a big fan of the Golden State so I couldn't think of something off the top of my head. Anyway, In-Out is fine, really. Just don't get the hype. And "California Dreamin'" is a tremendous song.
That one's fantastic to be sure. I honestly went back and forth about whether the Ms&Ps were the band to put there; I guess I just feel like they're disproportionately famous relative to their output. I almost said the Grateful Dead, but I love the Dead and didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.
Shake Shack over expanded and has been copied endlessly. There was a brief window in the aughts where the only Shack Burger you could get was by standing on a 45 minute line in Madison Square Park on a sunny day. Sublime. I lived in Murray Hill for about a decade and in the summer months Shake Shack was it.
- I’m honestly surprised so many here never tried a Big Mac. Next to the basic cheeseburger it’s my favorite McDonalds sandwich.
- my family scratches our McDonalds itch about once a month, and usually just for the sweet hot caramel sundae.
- The best Big Mac I ever had was in Moscow in 1991 (It was still the USSR then). It tasted exactly like a Big Mac in the US but the atmosphere made all the difference.
- The real culinary crime committed by McDonalds is the Fillet-O-Fish. I tried one once. Once.
McDonald's was always forbidden as a child because of kosher observance and now is forbidden as an adult because of veganism (plus some lingering kosher observance). So I've never had any of the meat at McDonald's and I stopped eating the fries when I learned they contain animal products. We exist! (But my refusal to eat beef burgers likely disqualifies me from writing an article about a restaurant whose conceit is a new spin on beef burgers.)
I'm also surprised at the number of commenters here who have never even eaten at a McD's let alone tried a Big Mac. I guess growing up in Wisconsin, life was different. Not only did we regularly eat at McD's, I worked at one in my teen years. So did my husband, sister, brother-in-law, etc (BTW, all college educated also). If it wasn't McD's, then it was BK. On the weekends, the McD I worked at was on what I'll call "college bar street" so we were open late enough that when the bars closed, we got all the drunk college kids who came in with serious munchies. They were hideously obnoxious but working the closing shift meant you often got to eat the leftover food. I always wanted to do the fry station clean-up because, yes, the fries were delicious!
As for the differences in the different burgers- the patties, cheese and onions on the Big Mac were the same as the ones on the regular and double cheese burgers. The difference was the bun, sauce and lettuce.
I agree with all the commenters who basically stated: 1) the quarter pounder is better and 2) the fish sandwich is terrible! Wendy's has a good fish sandwich but only during Lent (seriously??), and Arby's recently came out with a pretty good fish sandwich.
Of course as time has moved on, so have my food choices (mostly). Still, I do think there is a real danger in food snobbery, not unlike other forms of snobbery. The middle of the country still eats a lot of fast food, listens to country music, watches trash TV, goes to NASCAR and drinks cheap beer. There's absolutely no reason for liberals/progressives to get judgy; especially abhorrent is the passive-aggressive version of this judginess. When you do, don't be surprised if people don't want to listen to anything substantive you might have to say. Condescension from the left is a big, big problem.
My food snobbery is that Culver's is much better than McD's, so why eat at a McD's in WI? (Yeah, if you're really low on $$$, then McD's is the way to go, but the Culver's kids meal is a steal; I know more than a couple adults who get it.)
Profoundly incurious person here. At the age of six, I declared "these chicken McNuggets taste like rubber!" and after that I never ate at McDonalds ever again.
These days, I rarely eat fast food (I try to eat prepare as many healthy meals at home) but when I do, I don't eat at McDonalds. Nothing about it appeals to me. Chipotle, In-n-Out, and Jack-in-the-Box are all clearly superior options.
That's funny; the reason I've never had a Big Mac is because at the age of six, I declared "these chicken McNuggets taste like heaven" and after that, every time I go to McD's I end up ordering 20 chicken McNuggets and 3 honey mustard sauces, and can't be convinced to try anything else on the menu.
What's wrong with not owning a television? If people are trying to be mindful of how they spend their time, good for them! There are many enjoyable alternatives to watching television.
I, too, enjoy fast casual eateries like Chipotle but they cost like $12 if you get a drink, which doesn't seem like all that much until you realize that most fast food restaurants' meals are like $8. That 50% price difference is how I know I live an upper middle class lifestyle.
This is one area where I WILL allow my inner food snob to run riot. America is home to many millions of people of Mexican/Central American heritage. Any decent-sized US metro has absolutely solid burrito-style food joints these days. I strongly prefer to find a local place that looks good and go for it.
Chipotle’s main advantage is that it’s Subway-for-burritos. So you can pick and choose what you want and, because you can look at the ingredients, you can easily decide.
Subway is where I will allow *my* inner food snob to run riot. I don't mind an occasional Chipotle on the basis that it's really a different product from an authentic burrito, like how Americanized Chinese food and Chinese Chinese food are really two different products. But Subway is just a bad sandwich.
I wonder about the economics behind Subway. You see them literally everywhere; we even had them in places like Taji in Iraq. How do they stay in business?
I also feel that McDonalds is near the bottom of the fast food/fast casual heap, but it can be really useful while traveling. E.g. you're on a road trip and you find yourself hungry in the middle of Nebraska. You've got places to be and those other options don't exist. McDonald's is a known quantity, quick, and very unlikely to give you food poisoning. (If you're not in a rush, Denny's fills a similar role and has the benefit of being always open.) Heck, it's even useful in airports. Yes, you can run to the Five Guys in the next terminal, but you don't have time for that and there's a McDonalds near your gate.
i feel similarly about Starbucks. In the PNW with so many quality alternatives, we like to complain about their "burnt beans", but on a middle-of-nowhere road trip, it's a haven not only of full-bodied flavor, but also sophisticated vibes.
I'm nearly 50 and have never eaten a Big Mac. I have, however, eaten lots of McDonald's cheeseburgers and quarter pounders with cheese. I also worked in a McDonalds as a teenager, so, despite never having eaten one, I have made many of them, probably more than most people have eaten.
I was never a huge fan of lettuce on burgers and I do like mustard and ketchup.
So, for me, "mustard and ketchup" >>>>>>>>> "mystery sauce which I later learned was something like thoudasnd island dressing, which I don't particularly like." Easy decision not to every try one. (Though I will concede that if I was ever going to write an article about the Big Mac I would definitely try one first.
Counterpoint: the ingredients in a Big Mac aren’t novel and you’ll probably have a pretty good idea without trying one whether you’ll like it or not. I don’t really like raw onion and pickles on my burger… I just prefer other toppings. Am I required to go buy a Big Mac, take a bite, and say “nope, still not a raw onion guy!” to prove I don’t lack curiosity?
My favourite part about foodie culture is that they will go to another country to eat street food and be like the locals (which I do too! Street food is awesome!), but will never realize that street food in North America is basically fast food.
Not so sure. Actual street food (especially in developing countries) isn't standardized like US fast food. I'm not passing judgment as to which is better, mind you: there's a lot to be said for dependability, predictability, and the absence of food poisoning. But street food by its nature is quirky and varied. Wendy's is the same in Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine.
A better comparison is probably food trucks. Yes, some can be a bit pricey, but the US is a very rich country, so lots of things are expensive.
It’s very standardized overseas, people learn a recipe and don’t deviate from it for the same reason we have fast food: the key thing with street food is people knowing what they’re getting.
>>>It’s very standardized overseas<<<
Not in my experience. Maybe *within* a region. But not from region to region. But no doubt different countries are different.
American regions are very similar to each other in a way regions in most countries aren’t.
Germany and the Netherlands have their own versions of really gross, cheap and standardized industrially produced food. Also anywhere in the old East Block.
There are so many ways in which this is false. Fast food is mass produced from highly-processed ingredients. Street food may not be high-quality ingredients, but it's not highly-processed.
Great piece. Silly, perhaps, but a perfect illustration of the proud, intentional, and deliberate closing of the mind that is the hallmark of elite journalism today.
Note this is the same population that proudly writes features about cicada recipes, so I don’t buy “it looks gross” as the real reason for skipping the Big Mac.
I agree. She's a food critic so you have to eat it, gross or not, especially if you are going to diss it. Blithely saying I've never had a Big Mac but it still sucks, is elitist and off putting. That said, if you're judging McD's burgers - Quarter pounder is tops followed by single cheeseburger. And I was pleasantly surprised by the new chicken sandwich which I tried out of curiosity last week.
I’m really more of an Egg McMuffin/ Sausage biscuit gal myself. All hail all-day breakfast.
One thing where conservatives really have liberals number is snobbery: they get that a lot of what motivates the attitude of right-thinking liberals (not D voters but the people who write for prestige outlets and the people who run or donate to the Democratic party) is a desire to seem different from people of generally similar background who have bad taste and embarrassing opinions. This is *mostly snobbery*, it doesn’t actually make you a better person & it not the best motive in politics.
I love opera & I’m turned off by the idea of Disney World or jet skis or going on a cruise (although I have eaten a big mac and have been to a shooting range out of curiosity - it was fun). I don’t feel the need to rejigger my tastes to be less snooty, I am who I am, but they come from my background, it would be idiotic to confuse them with moral worth or good politics. Left wing politics has to involve poorer people voting for a party that protects their interests or it is all a game.
Cruises are extremely underrated. A massive ship with an endless number of activities, nightly entertainment, and unlimited food? Also, it's sailing around the Caribbean, so you can visit some of the finest beaches in the world and explore Caribbean culture. I know I sound like a Royal Carribean ad, but I stand by it
I hate going foreign places and being surrounded by Americans or having my activities chosen by somebody else. The one time my boyfriend and I went to the Caribbean cost of Mexico I insisted that we spend zero time in Cancun, & that we rent a car and drive around the Yucatan peninsula. It was probably as much fun as a cruise would have been but it took a huge amount of time to plan and it would have been impossible with kids.
I am willing write a New Yorker article about how I have strong opinions about cruises in spite of never having tried one. If I liked it it would undermine my sense of self. What if jet skis are more fun than kayaks?
Agreed. Had absolutely zero desire to go on one. Ever. Until a freebie arose courtesy of the 'rents some years ago. (Dad must've had a good year). Who am I to pass up a free vacation? Significant others were in invited and everything! I have to say it was far better than I'd dared hoped. We did the Caribbean as it happens. Royal Caribbean, as it happens. Ten days in March when the weather still sucks in Boston. I had fears of crowding and long lines. But no, it's basically a floating pleasure palace. Drank kick-ass rum on a Jamaican beach after horseback riding. Saw some whacked out pyramids in Mexico. Finally saw what all the fuss with Aruba is about (Newton with sand, from what I could tell). Caymans. Curacao. Definitely worth doing at least once, for the experience.
When my father was in the army, we took a boat from the Brooklyn Navy Yard to Bremerhaven, Germany. Our Buick came along and powered us down the autobahn to Hesse. This was a fun bit of practical cruising. I’m not the man for just sailing around.
Cruises generally have never sounded great to me -- I don't need "unlimited" food, I want a variety of _interesting_ food that I might not get regularly back home. Most of their "entertainment" options (like lounge singer shows aren't my thing) aren't my thing. And I don't want to go from port to port and only spend a day there, and then be bottled up on the boat... I want to actually have a few days to wander around.
So, fine, I very much have the snob tourism style -- but I don't really care what anyone else does! If you love cruises, by all means, go on cruises! (Though maybe read up on how the companies treat their workers, and see if you can find a way to ask them to do better.)
The last long trip I took, I went to a town in Baja del Sur that is a popular tourist destination for middle- to upper-middle-class _Mexicans_, and hung out for a week. My Spanish is just good enough that the fact that local service workers _don't_ always speak great English wasn't a big impediment, we could muddle through.
But: I really want to go on the JoCo cruise someday. I still don't understand how the author of this article ends up saying he _doesn't_ think he'd do it again. It sounds like the best parts of an sf con, stretched out and mixed with the best aspects of the cruise concept.
https://www.wired.com/2014/12/nerd-cruise/
“Personally, I think a Quarter Pounder is way better and also all the McDonald’s burgers are pretty bad but the fries or great and there’s some excellent breakfast options“
Based af.
The Big Mac sucks. Open the box—boom—lettuce everywhere.
The main entrees are pretty trash for the price. It’s all about the dollar menu—or I guess technically two cheese burgers is a main menu item and for $2.12 it’s great. My friend always does a McDouble and McChicken. Also a good combo but I think it’s a little pricier. These are also WAY better to eat in the car while driving—less mess. And honestly not a bad option if you’re trying to lose weight but want to treat yourself—as long as you’re willing to skip fries. Number 2 is 600 calories and you get to chow down two burgers—Big Mac and QP are mid 500s so it’s the same kinda thing. I dropped 40+ pounds over a few months still treating myself to a number 2 diet no fries a couple times a week.
Dunno how I feel about the new numbering for chicken sandwiches—4a, 4b etc. I think the Wendy’s option is better—have the sandwich and then chose spicy home style or grilled. This isn’t going to work if they go past 3 options—going to have too much mishearing b and d.
Wish they’d bring those spicy chicken tenders back but I guess my stepbro said they were a pain to make.
Damn. This is a man who really knows his way around a McDonald's. I appreciate expertise in everything.
Hey thanks yo lol
Oh and we didn’t even touch on the nuggets! I dunno IMO Wendy’s and even BK Lounge have a superior nug! But maybe some people like that drier and crunchier taste and less of the breading and just prefer the mcnug. There just aren’t a lot of McDs numbered menu items that are worth it. I do like Wendy’s more overall but even there—the 4 for $4 is just a better buy. Like when I say “I’m in the mood for fast food” I’m not in the mood for like a main entree and a side or whatever like I’m in the mood to pull a lot of small stuff out the bag that fits in my hand while I drive. It’s more like “snack food”—like eating a bag of chips—and less like an actual meal. The quality is RARELY high enough that it feels like a legit meal (well there’s a key exception below that I’ll get to)
If you’re in the $8-$11 range for a full meal—well—personally I’d go the Culver’s but I realize that’s not an option for the Coastal Elites here. I’d probably go with Arby’s I guess—and look—if you haven’t been to an Arby’s in the past ~15 years—forget whatever you’re picturing. It’s like Dominoes pizza—they’ve changed their ways. Don’t picture “ew gross roast beef melt eh maybe I’d stop for curly fries and a jamocha shake” no. They’ve got a lot of better options. Just do yourself, the employees, and the folks behind you a favor and do a little research before you go. Maybe just commit yourself to a “category”—do I want chicken? Corned beef? Then decide the specific sandwich at game time. It’s gonna be too overwhelming if you go in cold—you’re gonna get frustrated and panic order a roast beef or something you remember from the last time you were there during the Bush years and have a bad time.
Another good underrated sleeper buy is DEFINITELY a combination KFC-Taco Bell. Doesn’t really fit my whole “driving food” model but it’s got something for everyone.
I *do* like splurging every now and then for the Impossible Whopper at BK Lounge too. Way better than I expected! Just as good as the real Whopper (but tbf it’s a low bar). I dunno. Not my go to but I like to support the idea. Plus my wife doesn’t eat cows so we can both go and get it—it’s nice.
Similar with White Castle—they dropped an impossible slider around the same time and it’s worth checking out if you’re into that kind of thing. But still—White Castle and Sonic are similar to McDs in that it’s overpriced fast food. But there at least you’re paying for *novelty*. And you’re committing to a MUCH longer wait most of the time than you get at the Big Four. I wouldn’t stop for WC or Sonic when I’m just out and about the way I usually would for drive thru. Going out for those is more of an event.
Look—just to head off any contrarians on here coming to dunk on me about Culver’s—I get it. The fries are garb accordion school cafeteria fries. I agree. If you’re in the mood for fries and a coke McDs is great. It’s just Culver’s is for when I’m ACTUALLY going to sit and eat. If I’m committing to pulling up, parking and taking a number, I’m committing to eating that gd butter burger with two hands. I’m not THERE for the fries I’m there for the burger and probably a shake (hell if I’ve got the time I might even make it a malt!)—im there for the savory the fries are just there for a little sweet to mix it up.
Holy F. You seriously know the entire industry.
Have you considered starting a fast food consultancy? Guarantee you McKinsey ain't giving them THIS.
Lol I wish. Surprised they haven’t poached Reviewbrah...
Largely agree on Culver's. My girlfriend (from Chicago, went to college in Wisconsin) hyped it up to me when we went out to visit her parents. (I had never tried it because, while I am from Southeast Michigan, I moved to the East Coast shortly after Culver's opened its first locations in my area and I never had a chance to try it.) What can I say, it lived up to my girlfriend's hype--it tasted like a burger you'd get for about 50% more at a sit-down place and the custard was perfect. (Also, the fries are not the correct side, you get the cheese curds.)
On Arby's is there any regional variation/variation by franchise? On the same trip, my girlfriend and I went to an Arby's on I-80 in Western PA and it was...largely as I remembered it from c.2005. There were a few new options but not many.
So true. Yeah, it's sit-down quality. Agree--cheese curds are the play. Shoot--I might even get some tomorrow now that we're talking about it.
Re: Arby's--hmmm--could be? I've found indigents are just overall better and there's more options--though admittedly they seem to cycle things in and out more often than McD et al. Pandemic has definitely limited options lately as well.
Lucky bastard, the nearest Culver's to me is 400 miles away!
Around here we have combination KFC and A&W - you can get a root beer float and cheese curds with your chicken and biscuits.
That’s fuckin’ sick.
Yes, those things do make you go Number 2 a lot.... is that how they make you lose weight?
Tbh it's the lettuce that puts me off the Big Mac. (Well that and the sauce.) Must be an Arab thing, we generally don't put lettuce in our sandwiches. (If you've ever gotten lettuce in your shawarma or falafel...well it might've been authentically the restaurant's choice, but more likely they're catering to foreigners. Tomato, onion, cucumber, and pickles might show up, and arugula is authentic in some Egyptian sandwiches, but usually not lettuce.)
Ah didn't know that was an Arab thing! Ya--I'm not a fan either. Even at Subway I just do spinach instead.
You know what? Fuck "regular programming".
Ok, I don't really mean that, I've actually been enjoying Slow Boring immensely. But articles like this, where the subject isn't specifically about economics or politics, and at first it seems a little bit unserious, but then actually raises some really good points, are something I've really missed. I'd love to see a little more of "fun Matt" - the guy who writes about Big Macs, or fast food salads, or basketball. Not because I only care about pop culture, but because it's really interesting to think about these seemingly unimportant things in a analytical way that can bring up ideas which translate to other subjects.
For example, one of my all-time favorite articles by Matt was this brief analysis about the perverse incentives that caused the NBA owners to vote to keep the Kings in Sacramento back in 2013:
https://slate.com/business/2013/04/kings-staying-in-sacramento-to-wring-out-more-stadium-subsidies.html
That's not just some dumb sports story! It's a really interesting take on why the team owners collectively voted against the best interests of one of the individual owners in order to make themselves richer. I learned something about economics that day.
I'm not saying turn this into a Big Mac blog. But, if every few weeks, we got one article about fast food, or a TV show, or a sports team, I wouldn't complain.
I've never tried a Big Mac. Plenty of Quarter Pounders, though. The Big Mac appears to be a burger with smaller patties and... a piece of bread in the middle. Why? Who eats a Quarter Pounder and thinks, "That was all right, but what it really needs is 33% less beef and 50% more bread"?
For me a lot of attraction was the sauce
It’s special.
Yeah, one of the joys of the fast food burger style is that it’s thinner than a typical burger. But a Big Mac loses that feature by adding more bread? I mean, if Matt was telling us here that it’s the best thing on the menu I’d give it a shot, but at this point it just seems like a meh option.
Even more tellingly, the author apparently never had a Big Mac as a kid (they're really not *that* big). My guess is that the elitism is so ingrained through the generations at the New Yorker, no one there even recognizes how tone-deaf it all sounds.
Thinking about it more, maybe it's actually an important line in the article because it signals to people like him that his judgement can be trusted?
This is a silly conclusion. Lots of kids don’t like all those toppings on their burgers. I’ve had hundreds of McDonalds burgers and never wanted a Big Mac because I don’t like pickles and raw onions. A Big Mac isn’t some novel product. It’s a freaking hamburger with normal ingredients that you either know you’ll enjoy or you know you won’t.
And when you’re younger, your parents might have chosen to buy you the $1 burger anyway
Ate loads of fast food, never had a Big Mac. Didn't like the onions at McDonalds so generally rejected their burgers and if I wanted a burger, would go elsewhere.
The fail here is not trying a big mac for your article; it is lazy reporting, that's all.
Well, we're assuming the fact checkers at the New Yorker got this one right, and the author hadn't scarfed down the occasional one as a kid.
I have never tried a literal Big Mac, but I am, uh, probably overly familiar with the rest of the McDonald's menu, which is different from what the author implied, which is more to the effect of "McDonald's? Why, I would never!" than not having tried the specific sandwich.
I think your point about being curious is well-taken, Matt. I'm a fairly bookish liberal, but if someone wanted to, say take me to NASCAR, or out to shoot guns for fun, or out bow hunting, I'd probably say yes, because I have not done those things and I'm genuinely curious about the experience. I'm not going out of my way to do those things, but it's also not my job to write about them.
Many (most?) states have free learn to hunt classes (paid for by federal taxes on guns and ammo). Highly recommended if you want to try new things for free!
It's not just a red state thing. For example, here's info on taxachusetts' program https://www.mass.gov/service-details/learn-to-hunt-programs Sounds like their deer hunting class includes time on the range.
Bow hunting is hunting. Be prepared to gut your prey - that’s the experience.
Would it be ok with Matt if I continue to live as a person who's never tried a Big Mac? I'm plenty curious (I swear!). And I'm the least food-snobbish person on the planet. (You haven't really lived until you've eaten a quality Chinese ramen product slathered in Lao Gan Ma at 4am after plenty of cheap baijiu). BUT in the low-end US burger joint sector I've always preferred Burger King (don't disagree, mind you, that McDonald's fries are superior, but BK's burgers are definitely better). When forced to eat a non-breakfast at McDonald's I opt (this is bad) for just a regular cheeseburger (or two, if you really want to know the bitter truth).
A few other observations re: US burgers: 1) In-N-Out is the most overrated thing to come out of California since I don't know what. I mean, they're fine, but, a cult? Seriously? 2) Shake Shack is another overrated place, based on my single visit to the one adjacent to the Japanese Baseball Hall of fame. 3) I finally made it to a Five Guys last year during my extended USA stranding, and I thought their fare was delicious.
In-N-Out's fries are offensively bad. I'll walk a mile to eat a napkin from McDonald's before eating In-N-Out's fries again.
Usually when I spit this kind of truth about In-N-Out's fries, the fans pop in and say, "Oh, see, you have to order them [well done/animal style]!" Nope. Don't waste your money, they're still awful. You can't just cut potatoes and immediately fry them and expect to get a good result, but that's what they *pride* themselves on doing, wearing their laziness and indifference like a badge of honor.
Shake Shack is far away the best burger of the three, but it's double the price of In-N-Out, which is easily the best value. Five Guys isn't really part of the conversation unless you're someone who really, really loves peanuts.
I didn't see any sign of peanuts. I went to a Five Guys in Seattle in October. I think that's my my sole visit. I got takeout. It was delicious
I was a vegetarian from adolescence until about age 35, and so I've had only a few years to develop meat preferences, and I still can't resolve the Great Burger Debate. (Part of it is probably that, being from California and a fan of Big Lebowski, I can't help but *want* In-N-Out to be the best.) I'd love to try a blind taste-test sometime if the burgers could be provided hot enough—some LA mall that has all three, maybe.
So many things have come out of California that it's inexcusable not to have finished that comparison. The most overrated thing to come out of California since…the Power Mac Cube? The movie Crash? The Mamas and the Papas?
Yeah, sorry about not finishing the comparison. Honestly, I'm a big fan of the Golden State so I couldn't think of something off the top of my head. Anyway, In-Out is fine, really. Just don't get the hype. And "California Dreamin'" is a tremendous song.
That one's fantastic to be sure. I honestly went back and forth about whether the Ms&Ps were the band to put there; I guess I just feel like they're disproportionately famous relative to their output. I almost said the Grateful Dead, but I love the Dead and didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.
Shake Shack over expanded and has been copied endlessly. There was a brief window in the aughts where the only Shack Burger you could get was by standing on a 45 minute line in Madison Square Park on a sunny day. Sublime. I lived in Murray Hill for about a decade and in the summer months Shake Shack was it.
Shake Shack was Pat LaFrieda. You can’t expand on that.
Double Whopper 4 Life
Five Guys. French fries. Proving that quantity has a quality all its own.
A couple of thoughts on this important topic:
- I’m honestly surprised so many here never tried a Big Mac. Next to the basic cheeseburger it’s my favorite McDonalds sandwich.
- my family scratches our McDonalds itch about once a month, and usually just for the sweet hot caramel sundae.
- The best Big Mac I ever had was in Moscow in 1991 (It was still the USSR then). It tasted exactly like a Big Mac in the US but the atmosphere made all the difference.
- The real culinary crime committed by McDonalds is the Fillet-O-Fish. I tried one once. Once.
McDonald's was always forbidden as a child because of kosher observance and now is forbidden as an adult because of veganism (plus some lingering kosher observance). So I've never had any of the meat at McDonald's and I stopped eating the fries when I learned they contain animal products. We exist! (But my refusal to eat beef burgers likely disqualifies me from writing an article about a restaurant whose conceit is a new spin on beef burgers.)
I'm also surprised at the number of commenters here who have never even eaten at a McD's let alone tried a Big Mac. I guess growing up in Wisconsin, life was different. Not only did we regularly eat at McD's, I worked at one in my teen years. So did my husband, sister, brother-in-law, etc (BTW, all college educated also). If it wasn't McD's, then it was BK. On the weekends, the McD I worked at was on what I'll call "college bar street" so we were open late enough that when the bars closed, we got all the drunk college kids who came in with serious munchies. They were hideously obnoxious but working the closing shift meant you often got to eat the leftover food. I always wanted to do the fry station clean-up because, yes, the fries were delicious!
As for the differences in the different burgers- the patties, cheese and onions on the Big Mac were the same as the ones on the regular and double cheese burgers. The difference was the bun, sauce and lettuce.
I agree with all the commenters who basically stated: 1) the quarter pounder is better and 2) the fish sandwich is terrible! Wendy's has a good fish sandwich but only during Lent (seriously??), and Arby's recently came out with a pretty good fish sandwich.
Of course as time has moved on, so have my food choices (mostly). Still, I do think there is a real danger in food snobbery, not unlike other forms of snobbery. The middle of the country still eats a lot of fast food, listens to country music, watches trash TV, goes to NASCAR and drinks cheap beer. There's absolutely no reason for liberals/progressives to get judgy; especially abhorrent is the passive-aggressive version of this judginess. When you do, don't be surprised if people don't want to listen to anything substantive you might have to say. Condescension from the left is a big, big problem.
My food snobbery is that Culver's is much better than McD's, so why eat at a McD's in WI? (Yeah, if you're really low on $$$, then McD's is the way to go, but the Culver's kids meal is a steal; I know more than a couple adults who get it.)
Profoundly incurious person here. At the age of six, I declared "these chicken McNuggets taste like rubber!" and after that I never ate at McDonalds ever again.
These days, I rarely eat fast food (I try to eat prepare as many healthy meals at home) but when I do, I don't eat at McDonalds. Nothing about it appeals to me. Chipotle, In-n-Out, and Jack-in-the-Box are all clearly superior options.
That's funny; the reason I've never had a Big Mac is because at the age of six, I declared "these chicken McNuggets taste like heaven" and after that, every time I go to McD's I end up ordering 20 chicken McNuggets and 3 honey mustard sauces, and can't be convinced to try anything else on the menu.
“ (I try to eat prepare as many healthy meals at home)”
The new, “I don’t even own a television.”
What's wrong with not owning a television? If people are trying to be mindful of how they spend their time, good for them! There are many enjoyable alternatives to watching television.
It’s the wrapping your identity up with not owning a television that is the problem.
The real anti-snobbery? I rent-to-own a television!
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469
I don't wrap my identity up in eating healthy, so what is your point?
I, too, enjoy fast casual eateries like Chipotle but they cost like $12 if you get a drink, which doesn't seem like all that much until you realize that most fast food restaurants' meals are like $8. That 50% price difference is how I know I live an upper middle class lifestyle.
This is one area where I WILL allow my inner food snob to run riot. America is home to many millions of people of Mexican/Central American heritage. Any decent-sized US metro has absolutely solid burrito-style food joints these days. I strongly prefer to find a local place that looks good and go for it.
Chipotle’s main advantage is that it’s Subway-for-burritos. So you can pick and choose what you want and, because you can look at the ingredients, you can easily decide.
Subway is where I will allow *my* inner food snob to run riot. I don't mind an occasional Chipotle on the basis that it's really a different product from an authentic burrito, like how Americanized Chinese food and Chinese Chinese food are really two different products. But Subway is just a bad sandwich.
Subway is fine. I’ve never understood this opinion as someone who just eats everywhere.
Yuck.
I wonder about the economics behind Subway. You see them literally everywhere; we even had them in places like Taji in Iraq. How do they stay in business?
They’re franchises. If you’re willing to work your ass off with two family members and a couple part-time teen employees you can make a good living.
Market saturation has been an issue for this particular chain, from what I understand.
I live in Southern California, so I frequent authentic Mexican restaurants, in addition to Chipotle. I understand that Chipotle is not authentic.
I also feel that McDonalds is near the bottom of the fast food/fast casual heap, but it can be really useful while traveling. E.g. you're on a road trip and you find yourself hungry in the middle of Nebraska. You've got places to be and those other options don't exist. McDonald's is a known quantity, quick, and very unlikely to give you food poisoning. (If you're not in a rush, Denny's fills a similar role and has the benefit of being always open.) Heck, it's even useful in airports. Yes, you can run to the Five Guys in the next terminal, but you don't have time for that and there's a McDonalds near your gate.
i feel similarly about Starbucks. In the PNW with so many quality alternatives, we like to complain about their "burnt beans", but on a middle-of-nowhere road trip, it's a haven not only of full-bodied flavor, but also sophisticated vibes.
I'm nearly 50 and have never eaten a Big Mac. I have, however, eaten lots of McDonald's cheeseburgers and quarter pounders with cheese. I also worked in a McDonalds as a teenager, so, despite never having eaten one, I have made many of them, probably more than most people have eaten.
I was never a huge fan of lettuce on burgers and I do like mustard and ketchup.
So, for me, "mustard and ketchup" >>>>>>>>> "mystery sauce which I later learned was something like thoudasnd island dressing, which I don't particularly like." Easy decision not to every try one. (Though I will concede that if I was ever going to write an article about the Big Mac I would definitely try one first.
Counterpoint: the ingredients in a Big Mac aren’t novel and you’ll probably have a pretty good idea without trying one whether you’ll like it or not. I don’t really like raw onion and pickles on my burger… I just prefer other toppings. Am I required to go buy a Big Mac, take a bite, and say “nope, still not a raw onion guy!” to prove I don’t lack curiosity?
I guess it depends on what your assignment editor at the New Yorker demands you do before you write a story on the Big Mac.