What should we do about the Chavez statues? It doesn't seem like we have a clear protocol for how much bad stuff is too much bad stuff. I don't know the right answer either way but I know SF is spending a bunch of money on new signage. I guess it's fine? But I could be convinced either way
I'm pretty lost in Texas history at the moment ("Big Wonderful Thing" by Steven Harrigan) and my current thinking is statues for the founding scoundrels of Texas are fine because they were all insane and worth learning about. James Bowie took an underpowered musket ball to the chest and survived, tried to open a retractable knife and lost a tooth (it was in the other man's finger by the end of that fight) and designed a new knife that eventually became the Bowie knife we know today. Who will know this without a statue? (of course there was also some Alamo business)
I'm also glad that there's one of Molly Goodnight nurturing two bison calves. She's responsible for saving a remainder during the massive bison cull that helped end the Comanchería - she hated the whole slaughter and got her husband Charles Goodnight to reserve a part of their Palo Duro ranch for a small herd. They (you know - scientists) tested the descendants of the herd in the 90s and found it was genetically distinct from surviving bison up north.
Basically I agree with Yglesias overall on having more statues, I just wanted to say a bit on why I still think the old Confederate statues can have value.
Washington should have a Washington Circle with all the cool Washingtons. You can put up George, sure, but why not also Booker T. Washington, G.W. Carver, G.W. Williams, and heck, throw in Denzel for fun.
My hometown of Manchester has the obvious statues (e.g. the founders of Manchester Liberalism, John Bright and Richard Cobden), but also has a Friedrich Engels statue and an Abraham Lincoln.
The Lincoln statue has a summary of Lincoln's letter to the working-men of Manchester:
Manchester's cotton workers refused to handle slave-grown cotton smuggled out of the Confederacy, which resulted in a great deal of suffering here in the city, as workers were unable to work without the raw material.
In time, Egyptian and Indian cotton replaced cotton from the American south in Manchester's factories and the local economy was already recovering before the American Civil War ended.
... and I'd never have known this story without seeing the statue while walking around the city one day.
Engels, rather famously, owned one of those cotton factories, and wrote "On the Condition of the Working-Class in England" based on his observations of his own employees. The Engels statue is a discarded USSR statue, brought to the UK after the fall of the Soviet Union.
I always feel like Buchanan gets a bit of a raw deal in presidential rankings. Like, yes, the Civil War started while he was President, but on the other hand there's a pretty solid argument that, by the time Buchanan was elected President, *a* civil war was all but inevitable in the United States and almost everything Buchanan might plausibly have done differently would have just accelerated the timeline toward the outbreak of the Civil War.
This reminds me of an article Matt wrote a few years ago that really stuck with me about how "historic preservation" of places that aren't notable for their outward appearance should include more plaques to explain and preserve that history, rather than just keeping everything frozen in time. More statues and plaques everywhere please!
I was on the RTD when I visited Denver last month and was so happy to catch a glimpse of it (along with a number of new apartment and housing developments along the way).
Not a statue obviously, but in re: contemporary design, I think laypeople have a high opinion of the Gateway Arch in St. Louis. It's possible that symmetry is a good defense against the "this is a random collage of junk" accusations.
The greatest statue I've ever seen is the Monument to the Boll Weevil in Enterprise AL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boll_Weevil_Monument). They put it up in gratitude for the boll weevil destroying their cotton crops . . . and leading to their switching to peanuts which turned out to be a far more profitable direction for the community.
I would say my second favorite is the Chair Statue in Thomasville NC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Chair), honoring the role of furniture in this community, but my vague memory from my visit many decades ago was that the chair was astride a horse in classic hero style. Alas, my memory played tricks on me and it was just a chair on a pedestal.
I agree with this, but I draw the line at monarchs or titled aristocrats. None of that in my republic.
There should be more statues of local heroes -- maybe what were in antiquity local gods -- of the somewhat above ordinary in ordinary places.
What should we do about the Chavez statues? It doesn't seem like we have a clear protocol for how much bad stuff is too much bad stuff. I don't know the right answer either way but I know SF is spending a bunch of money on new signage. I guess it's fine? But I could be convinced either way
I'm pretty lost in Texas history at the moment ("Big Wonderful Thing" by Steven Harrigan) and my current thinking is statues for the founding scoundrels of Texas are fine because they were all insane and worth learning about. James Bowie took an underpowered musket ball to the chest and survived, tried to open a retractable knife and lost a tooth (it was in the other man's finger by the end of that fight) and designed a new knife that eventually became the Bowie knife we know today. Who will know this without a statue? (of course there was also some Alamo business)
I'm also glad that there's one of Molly Goodnight nurturing two bison calves. She's responsible for saving a remainder during the massive bison cull that helped end the Comanchería - she hated the whole slaughter and got her husband Charles Goodnight to reserve a part of their Palo Duro ranch for a small herd. They (you know - scientists) tested the descendants of the herd in the 90s and found it was genetically distinct from surviving bison up north.
I wrote a response to this on my blog: https://charlespye.substack.com/p/moderately-in-favor-of-some-confederate
Basically I agree with Yglesias overall on having more statues, I just wanted to say a bit on why I still think the old Confederate statues can have value.
Washington should have a Washington Circle with all the cool Washingtons. You can put up George, sure, but why not also Booker T. Washington, G.W. Carver, G.W. Williams, and heck, throw in Denzel for fun.
My hometown of Manchester has the obvious statues (e.g. the founders of Manchester Liberalism, John Bright and Richard Cobden), but also has a Friedrich Engels statue and an Abraham Lincoln.
The Lincoln statue has a summary of Lincoln's letter to the working-men of Manchester:
https://acws.co.uk/archives-misc-lincoln_letter
Manchester's cotton workers refused to handle slave-grown cotton smuggled out of the Confederacy, which resulted in a great deal of suffering here in the city, as workers were unable to work without the raw material.
In time, Egyptian and Indian cotton replaced cotton from the American south in Manchester's factories and the local economy was already recovering before the American Civil War ended.
... and I'd never have known this story without seeing the statue while walking around the city one day.
Engels, rather famously, owned one of those cotton factories, and wrote "On the Condition of the Working-Class in England" based on his observations of his own employees. The Engels statue is a discarded USSR statue, brought to the UK after the fall of the Soviet Union.
James Buchanan was by wide consensus the worst president we ever had, but it’s still kind of fun to come across his statue in a park near my house.
I always feel like Buchanan gets a bit of a raw deal in presidential rankings. Like, yes, the Civil War started while he was President, but on the other hand there's a pretty solid argument that, by the time Buchanan was elected President, *a* civil war was all but inevitable in the United States and almost everything Buchanan might plausibly have done differently would have just accelerated the timeline toward the outbreak of the Civil War.
Shall we think the same of Trump?. Maybe the statue of him with Epstein will have staying power.
A statue for everyone who ever appeared on bloggingheads.tv!
This reminds me of an article Matt wrote a few years ago that really stuck with me about how "historic preservation" of places that aren't notable for their outward appearance should include more plaques to explain and preserve that history, rather than just keeping everything frozen in time. More statues and plaques everywhere please!
https://www.slowboring.com/p/commemorate-history-dont-preserve
I have not seen nearly enough discussion of Blucifer in these comments. More Blucifers! Damn the consequences!
I was on the RTD when I visited Denver last month and was so happy to catch a glimpse of it (along with a number of new apartment and housing developments along the way).
I'm walking distance to William Seward and Jimi Hendrix. I like both statues.
I also like the (Morrill Act signer) Lincoln on Bascom Hill at the University of Wisconsin and was horrified when some students wanted to remove him.
Luckily we have great statues of RoboCop and Rocky
Every state (town?) should have a Ulysses S Grant statue as awesome as the one at the US Capitol!
Not a statue obviously, but in re: contemporary design, I think laypeople have a high opinion of the Gateway Arch in St. Louis. It's possible that symmetry is a good defense against the "this is a random collage of junk" accusations.
The greatest statue I've ever seen is the Monument to the Boll Weevil in Enterprise AL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boll_Weevil_Monument). They put it up in gratitude for the boll weevil destroying their cotton crops . . . and leading to their switching to peanuts which turned out to be a far more profitable direction for the community.
I would say my second favorite is the Chair Statue in Thomasville NC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Chair), honoring the role of furniture in this community, but my vague memory from my visit many decades ago was that the chair was astride a horse in classic hero style. Alas, my memory played tricks on me and it was just a chair on a pedestal.