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John from FL's avatar

"If liberals insist that only fascists will enforce borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals refuse to do."

https://archive.ph/PXfd2

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Geoffrey G's avatar

This is a key point: "Part of the reason for the gap is probably that M.P.s have to think more concretely about tradeoffs. It’s a lot easier to tell a pollster you want harsher sentences or tweet about how we could end crime by locking up repeat offenders and throwing away the key than it is to specifically write down what taxes you want to raise or what spending you want to cut in order to accomplish that."

Apply this to immigration, too. You want less... but are you willing to pay the cost?

If the median voter wants to make it harder to emigrate to Germany, the United States, and most everywhere else. But what about the tradeoffs incurred? Does the average voter also want more expensive healthcare and longer wait times? How about food-price inflation? Maybe they'd be less happy if their local elementary school closed? Remember when everyone was freaking out that "nobody wants to work anymore?" Y'all ain't seen nothin yet!

These effects and immigration only seem unrelated because people still aren't contending with the fact that the *only* reason that populations haven't been in free-fall across the Western world for years now is immigration. And that everything they consider "normal" is extremely sensitive to the working-age population and labor supply. Places like Japan have been foreshadowing our future my while life, but they actually adapted to their new reality in ways that I don't think the American system (or psyche) is really prepared for.

But maybe we'll all learn fast because the US population has just shrank for the first time in its history. Note that the American population didn't shrink during the Civil War, either of the World Wars, or the Great Influenza. But now it has. For. The. First. Time. Ever. And almost entirely due to the MAGA immigration policy (plus decades of below-replacement birthrates).

It takes people a while to notice the knock-on effects of something so catastrophic, but they will. You say it "wouldn't be the end of the world." But people were OUTRAGED that they couldn't get their McDonald's or Starbucks in a timely fashion during COVID. And, already, Trump got a little wobbly with the obvious acute effect of his immigration raids on the food production sector and reversed. And anti-immigration is his whole thing! How quickly will the MAGA diehards among the votership suddenly notice the upsides of having a bunch of erstwhile undesirable Haitians and Venezuelans around? I'd wager sometime before 2028 at this rate...

People in Germany and Italy don't have to wait so long. The shrinkage is happening now. And so are its deleterious effects. But they still want less immigration. So who's going to tell everyone that you can't have your cake and eat it too? Maybe I'm wrong and motivated reasoning and propaganda inure everyone from the truth that not having babies and not having immigrants is when we can't have nice things, anymore. But we're recovered from spats of xenophobic populism before when everyone feels the concrete effect of fewer people.

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